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Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's webinar, which is on safety, leadership and culture, which is brought to you by our professional affiliate members, Rambo.
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First of all, thank you to everyone for coming today. We hope that you find the content useful.
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There will be a Q &A at the end of the session, so please put any questions that you have into the questions box, and we'll do our best to go through as many as we can at the end of the webinar.
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Following today's webinar, we'll be sending you an article email in the next couple of days.
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This will contain a recording of the webinar, a copy of the slides and the contact details of today's presenter.
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So, without any further ado, I'll hand you over to today's presenter, which is David. Thank you, Luke. Morning, everybody. Lovely to have you here today.
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So, we're covering a topic, safety leadership in culture, a topic which is at the heart of pretty much everything that people do these days, you know.
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You need to be able to make that people go home to the warm embrace of their family at the end of the day.
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So what I'm going to share with you today is not so much the technical side of safety, but more to do with behavioural side and the heart and mind side of safety.
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Just to kick us off, occasionally not familiar with Ramble, I won't spend a lot of time on this particular slide, but we're an independent architectural engineering consultancy company.
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I think the figures at the bottom are quite interesting as takeaways.
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We're in 35 different countries around the world. We're in each region of the world.
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We have about 18 ,000 employees and our annual revenue is 2.3 billion.
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We work in energy, real estate buildings, transport, rail, water, waste, finance technology, so quite broad ranging engineering consultancy company.
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I'm in the environment and health section of that covering safety leadership and safety culture transformation.
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For my background, I've spent 30 years in this space and about maybe 12, 13 years managing, running safety culture and leadership and transformation programmes. I think that will do.
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Just diving in here, there's a couple of things I need to mention up front.
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We are actually running a series of webinars on this topic over the next few months from the 19th of June through to the 7th of August.
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We're gonna share with you the link to these.
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So if this is a topic that is of interest to you or interest to your colleagues, do take a look at the various topics we've got here.
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We're covering the neurology of safety, organizational safety behavior, how you can gain insights from a field observation.
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So there's a whole range of different topics there.
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There are 20 minutes, short, sharp.
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We'll stay on the line afterwards for Q &A with these sessions, but they're short and sharp just to basically kind of keep it fresh in mind and give people some insights around this topic, this important topic.
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Our session this morning, we're going to be finished by 11 UK time. Session's for you, so relax and enjoy.
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We are recording, you will get a copy of the recording afterwards.
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Now, I am going to be asking you, keep your phone handy, because there are a few simple polls. I'm using something called Menti.
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There's a QR code that will come up.
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You can scan the QR code, take it to the Menti, and then we can see how people are polling. Very simple, nothing too complicated.
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It's going to keep us engaged. I'm going to invite you as well at certain points to chat sessions.
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Now, on the screen that you have in front of you, if you're at your laptop, you have a section which is called Questions, where you can post your questions.
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We're going to use that as the chat function today.
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So when we're doing the chat sessions, please type whatever it is your answers are to that particular question into the questions section, and we'll be able to pick that up as we go along.
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And also can use the same function at the end.
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And there's time at the end to also for questions in discussion.
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This session, we're covering three topics.
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We're looking at the impact of safety on business.
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We're gonna kind of take a trip down memory lane and look at kind of history.
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Where has the safety thing come from?
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And what are the drivers around safety performance?
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And where is it likely to go going forward?
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So quite a broad overview of the whole safety piece.
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I'm going to take that down a little bit into leadership behaviour and safety culture.
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How should leaders show up to be able to create the behaviours that they want out there on the front line?
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And then that will lead us into our third part of this talk, which is around leadership alignment to create the behaviours that you want out in the in the operations now okay so here we if you may remember both of these incidents now there's a poll so you can get your phone I'll do the same thing and you can scan the QR code I'll give some time to get that done, so you can scan the QR code. I'll do the same thing, screens for this.
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Two questions.
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The first is how much, if you go back to 1989, now those of you sort of my sort of age, I was at university when this was happening, there was an incident called the Exxon Valdez disaster occurred in 1989, and that was a oil tanker that ran aground in Prince William Sound, a beautiful pristine environment.
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Tons of oil spilled into this pristine environment, major environmental incident.
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My question to you is, back then, 1989, how much do you think, finger in the air, you may know, but finger in the air, how much do you think that incident cost Exxon, okay?
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And then I'll roll the screen forward and ask you the same question about one that we will remember, because it wasn't that long ago, really, it was only 15 years ago, 2010, the Deepwater Horizon disaster with BP in the Gulf of Mexico, similar kind of level of spill, bigger incident because it had some fatalities involved in that as well, but kind of comparable.
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How much do you think that incident cost BP?
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So hopefully, you have the QR code.
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I'm going to knock that out.
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And oh, OK, so what have we got going on here?
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I haven't voted yet.
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I know the answer.
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So we've got kind of generally the consensus here seems to be that an incident of that magnitude even back in 1989 would have been somewhere between one in 10 billion.
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It's kind of got a little bit of a pump around those particular numbers.
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Okay, so let's scroll forward.
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Same question.
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So this will be now forwarding on your screen.
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Should have come up with the Deepwater Horizon.
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How much do you think the Deepwater Horizon disaster cost BP?
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Yeah, voting.
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But yeah, you're getting quite consistent figure here.
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So it looks like the Deepwater Horizon disaster, 40 billion.
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Now bear with me whilst I pop this back.
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So let's have a look at this a little bit more closely.
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What is this telling us?
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So there's something happened between those two dates, right?
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So if you look at this, the actual answer for Exxon Valdez, 24th of March, 1989, EHS impact, I'm gonna represent that as a circle.
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The business impact in terms of sort of fines and penalties and compensation and payments was about 500 million.
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It could, it's still kind of going through the courts actually, but it could end up being about a billion.
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500 million, represent that with a circle.
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BP Macondo, if you roll forward 20 years, 20th of April 2010, the HS impact was greater, so we have a bigger circle there.
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Business impact was 41 billion. It wiped 36% of the share value of BP.
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BP basically had to reorganise and restructured themselves around this incident.
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It was a major problem for them.
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The question here is why?
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If I represent that with a circle, it's like there's this huge magnitude difference in the chat function or the question function.
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I'd like you to think about what changed over that period, over that 20 year period in the 10 years since, like over the last 30 years, in your lifetimes, in your careers, what's changed that means that when something big happens, it has such a magnitude difference of impact on the business?
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This is something that we need to think about, you know?
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What is it that's changed?
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So I'll just give you, for those of you in front of your laptops, what comes to mind?
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What have you seen that's different?
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How is safety different?
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Yeah, okay.
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All right, we've got a few things coming up.
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Keep typing.
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Yeah, law and safety approach.
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Look what's happened with the laws in the last 20 to 30 years.
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You know, they're certainly not getting any easier.
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So the legislation has become more sophisticated.
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The enforcement, I spent a lot of my career in the Far East, and I saw over the 30-year period that I was there, the regulators got more competent and better at what they were doing, as well as the legislation getting stricter.
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Okay, another one here is media.
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The media landscape shifted a lot over that period, right?
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Back in, you saw the early 90s, if there was an incident, the, you know, a company could kind of mobilize to their war room, right?
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You know, and actually work with clients on these kind of communications engagements where you can figure out, okay, what are we gonna release to the press?
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What are we gonna tell people?
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How do we manage this?
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There was time.
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Now with social media, there's no time.
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There was a client that I was working with in the Gulf of Thailand, Thai company, oil and gas company, and they had a leaky manifold on a jetty.
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And they found out about this from the videos being loaded up by tourists in boats in that part of the coastline.
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You know, you can't control the flow of information these days, it's just out there.
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Yeah, people are better educated, that's another one.
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People have been exposed to this, so the people who are coming into the workplace now, add sort of the EHS type thing ingrained into them.
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when they were in kindergarten, even when they were doing simple kind of projects of which we would have called art, my age group would have called art and craft project would have been there, some environmental project.
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And then it's that's continued through into university, higher education, how many how many university courses were there in this sort of space back in the 1980s, late 1980s? Anywhere in the world, not many.
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Now, everybody is studying, even the lawyers are studying, the accountants are studying, it's kind of, It's pervasive.
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Okay, yeah, shifting culture and attitudes to incidents.
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And that's something that I'd like to pick up on a little bit more, actually, is the way that the attitude towards incidents have shifted the sort of expectations of society, as it were.
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So thank you, thank you for your comments there.
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Let me just bring this forward a little bit.
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So what we've kind of seen, particularly for that last comment, the shifting culture and attitudes to incidents, Over time, you've seen this sort of societal expectations have increased and they've increased very dramatically.
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What I've seen over the course of my career is that our client's performance has improved, but often it hasn't improved quickly enough to meet where society is at, at the moment.
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And that big impact when things go badly wrong on business is forming in that gap, you know?
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So let's just pop these, let's just pop these in.
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So yeah, social media, we talked about that.
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Frequency and scale of instance, I've got some photos, the sort of images that get broadcast around the world now that make people worried and concerned and it starts becoming a political issue.
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The scale of incidents continue to escalate, people are better educated, the science is improved, with AI now, you know, there's so much data and information available, it's more accurate.
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Regulations getting stricter. So there's decline in risk tolerance.
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And of course, the question is, are these forces spent or do they still have some way to go, you know?
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Social media is not going to go away.
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Incidents continue to happen.
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People's education is going to be a science is going to continue to get more sophisticated regulations getting stricter.
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You can see that there's still quite, there's a strong driving force here pushing that that line on the curve society's expectations.
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So we need to kind of narrow that gap.
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Make sense.
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Bear with me. Let's look at some of these photos.
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I won't go into detail with these just flash them up, you know, just kind of sort of things that we see.
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This was the 2010 Deepwater Horizon.
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So what have we had since then?
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Fukushima, that photograph, that is the roof of reactor number four at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant in Japan.
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Terrifying, you know, huge incident, 60 ,000 people evacuated.
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Ball 4, 2015, this was the Tianjin port explosion in China.
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that crater was from the explosion and behind it there are apartment blocks to the magnitude of these incidents when things go wrong.
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The Bramindo Minas Guedes disaster in Brazil 2019, tailings dam, toxic tailings, burst, go down it wiped out three or four villages as it went down the mountainside.
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Beirut explosion, 2020.
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Marathon petroleum, 2023.
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So these things continue, it keeps happening.
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Vistra power plant, this January.
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So these incidents keep happening.
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Now, what I want you to think about with this is, okay, we've got this gap, potentially, depending on your organization, you know, there's this gap between what society expects and actual performance.
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And what we've seen clients do over the years to try and narrow that gap is to, well, you know, they'll do more audits, they'll maybe do more training, they'll implement management systems.
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But they've kind of been doing audits and they've been doing training and they've had management systems for quite a long time, you know, so it's, you know, a situation with audits, if you're trying to use an audit to change things on site, does an audit really do that?
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You have a situation at the end of the audit, it gets towards maybe some Thursday, the audit's finishing on Friday, and within the operation, you've got that conversation going on, I don't have the audits that came to see me. Oh, how did it go?
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Well, they found a few things.
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And you got a comment like, oh, well, don't worry, they'll be gone tomorrow, and we can get back to normal?
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Well, getting back to normal isn't going to change things particularly.
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If we're going to close this gap, we need to be doing something that makes a difference.
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So here's the definition of insanity.
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This is often attributed to Einstein but apparently it wasn't Einstein. It was coming from Narcotics Anonymous. Still valid though.
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insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.
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You know, you've heard this before.
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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.
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So we've been seeing this within our clients over the years, what they're trying to do more and more and more of the same, but expect to get a different result in terms of their EHS or their safety performance.
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So we need to do something different.
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What does that look like?
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You know, what does that look like?
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Okay, so we're going to move into that space now.
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Leadership behavior and safety culture, it's a cultural issue.
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At the end of the day, you know, you've got procedures in place, the trainings in place, the audit programs in place, the inspections are going on, but things still happen, things still happening. Why?
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because the behavior is out there on the front line, how do you get into that space?
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You know, that's where you can really make a difference.
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Okay, so my invitation now is actually, it's the same QR code as the previous one, but if you missed it the first time around, you can grab it again.
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This time the question is, and it's a simple question, what percentage of accidents or incidents do you think are due to behaviour?
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I say it's a simple question, not necessarily a simple question because there are lots of reasons why incidents happen but what percentage are due to behaviour do you think?
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All right I'm going to give you a second just to grab your QR code and then I'm like that. Okay, is it working? Oh, it's working. There you go.
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I'm worried there that it might be doing anything. 80, 80, 60. Okay. Brilliant. Yeah. All right. 20.
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Now, there are lots of reasons why incidents and accidents happen, right? It's not only behaviour. All right.
20:55
I think that's a good number there.
20:57
That's a good number there.
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And you know, all sorts of things, people cutting corners and people might be rushing, there could be engineering reasons, things haven't been designed properly, or you know, you can have all kinds of different things going on where they weren't paying attention.
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Let's have a look and see what the research is telling us there.
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So you can't overwhelmingly, we've kind of got a figure of 80% there with 60% coming in as a close second, One person's saying 100.
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Let me just pop that back.
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OK, hopefully that's visible.
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So what have we got?
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Now, there are lots of these, but actually, quite a few of the various things you look at.
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So say, for example, there's a design issue.
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Somebody has to climb on top of a pipe in order to get to a valve, because it hasn't been designed well.
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So you've got an unsafe behavior.
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They fall off.
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They have an accident.
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Well, it's not their fault, right?
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There's a design issue.
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But actually, you can still kind of trace that back to somebody at a drawing board doing the PNID or that particular part of the plan that didn't think about that.
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So you can kind of trace a lot of this stuff back to Hager.
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A lot of it does come back to Hager.
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And the studies that have been done, Heinrich said that it was about 88%.
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DuPont, 96. BST, these are big research bodies that work on safety programs.
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BST says 95%, so it's a big, it's a significant percentage. Where do we focus our effort generally?
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How much do we spend focusing on the behavioural piece compared to other aspects of safety?
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And generally, most of our clients that we talk to, they're spending most of their time and effort on preventing people acting a certain way rather than thinking a certain way.
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That's something that needs to shift.
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Something that needs to shift.
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And a lot of companies are moving into that space now.
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Let's dig into this a little bit deeper.
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Let me put up another concept for you guys here.
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What do you got here?
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Okay, where to focus.
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So, safety performance is a bell curve, okay?
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Like any kind of performance is a bell curve.
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You have great, at one end, people doing a really good job, you know, they're kind of where you want them to be.
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Bulk of the operation is somewhere in the middle, you know?
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And you've got a few down at the bottom end there, which is not optimal, it's not kind of how you want it to be.
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And that's with any kind of, with anything, you can kind of measure it in that in that way.
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But there's a difference with safety, right, with EHS and safety in that here's a question for you.
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How many individuals or teams at the bottom of that curve does it take for there to be a serious injury or a fatality even? How many does it take?
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Maybe you could use the questions functions.
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For those of you who have your laptop, how many does it take?
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How many individuals or teams does it take?
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The bottom of that curve for you to have a fatality.
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Right, yeah, it's just one, just one.
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Thanks, Yana.
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Only takes one.
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So it's not about, so with safety, it's not about the average.
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Other parts of the business, you can kind of work on averages.
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Here, you can't.
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It only, you could have, the vast majority of the operation could be at the top end of that, you know, doing really well, top end of that curve.
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But it only takes one or two teams at the bottom end for you to have a problem.
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So it's about identifying the weakest link, right?
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Not about the weakest link.
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And of course, the people at the bottom end of that curve, they're the ones who don't get it.
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They're the folks who are like, oh, yeah, and their safety stuff, nevermind about that.
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You know, they're the ones who are resistant to change.
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So that's where you're gonna get your greatest gains, but it's also where if you have your greatest challenge.
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So bear with me, let's dive into this a little bit more.
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Team performance counts.
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So all organizations are made up of teams.
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Incidents when they happen, they're happening out on the front line.
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It's kind of at the bottom of this pyramid, but in that pyramid, you've got a boss.
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So, it's about the performance, whether a particular team or even individual is at the bottom of that curve, depends upon the culture within that team, and the culture within that team is a function of the leader, the boss, the supervisor, the supervisor's supervisor, the boss's boss.
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As you go up the pyramid, if there's unsafe messaging going down, then the greater number people at the bottom of the pyramid have to basically suffer the consequences of those poor decisions, those poor leadership decisions. So each and every team has its own culture.
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You need to identify which of those teams are at the bottom of the curve and coach them, bring them up. And I want to kind of give a sense of what that looks like.
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What does that mean? Culture?
26:42
You know, what do you see when you're out there? So here we go.
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So for a bank screen now, to get into that.
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So you've got four people, let's say they're in an engineering workshop.
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Straightforward, we've all got engineering workshops, or another usually operating facilities. The guy in the green helm is new. Okay, so he's new.
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So he's, he's, he's doesn't know the, you know, the three colleagues that he's working with, they he's trying to get trying to fit in, he wants to kind of be accepted by them, he's trying to understand what's going on, we've all been through that.
27:20
He gets taken through his induction, right, and as part of his induction he has to spend time with the safety guy, so we put the safety guy in the blue helmet so you can see, safety guy, he goes off, safety guy, and maybe he's been inducted on various aspects of the, you know, the facilities safety programs, maybe one of those is in the engineering workshop he's going to have to use a grinder so he's with the safety guy doing his induction probably a bunch of other people and the safety guy is like okay we're going to talk about grinders have you ever have you ever used a grinder and our new guy is like yeah boss I've used grinders for years I'm familiar with grinders no problems great okay so here's the kind of requirements here grinder you need to make sure that the cable is intact it hasn't been cut and spliced with tape you know because it was raining and I get electrically to make sure it's in good condition.
28:10
You need to make sure that there's a guard on the disc because if it disintegrates, it's gonna have some protection.
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You need to make sure that the disc is the right disc for the power of the tool, okay?
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You need to make sure you've got eye protection, so on.
28:25
Understand?
28:26
Yeah, understand boss, understand boss.
28:29
He signs the form, he's now been trained on how to use the grinder.
28:32
With me?
28:33
Great.
28:34
He then goes back into his team, back into his workshop.
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Now imagine, here's a scenario, right?
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So imagine one of his colleagues says, hey, Dave, you know, grab a grinder, go and clean up that, the ****** up, then go and clean a piece of metal out in the yard there.
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Needs to be done by 2 p.m.
28:54
He's like, great, I can do that.
28:56
Sure, he goes to the cabinet, opens the cabinet, gets the grinder down, looks and finds the best one he can find, they're all a bit, gets his grinder down, he's like, oh man, you know, his cable's been spliced with tape and like there's the guards broken and the disc is in a foreign language, it's in Chinese, he can't read it. So does he know that's not right? He knows, right, he knows it's not right.
29:21
Now imagine this situation where he goes to his buddy, his new buddy, and says, look, his grinder, it's not safe, can't use it, you know, I was going through this the other day with the safety thing, it's not safe.
29:37
Imagine a scenario where his buddy looks at him, he goes, calls his other two friends over, says, hey listen to this, Dave doesn't like our grinder, it's not safe for him, are you gonna get hurt, not safe, get out there, get job done.
29:56
Now I'm exaggerating slightly but not an unreasonable thing to hear on site you know that's something you might hear. What does he do?
30:07
That he knows it's not safe but he's trying to fit into that new team he's been humiliated.
30:14
Chances are unless he's got a really strong character he's going to be out there grinding doing as quickly as possible hoping the safety doesn't come along.
30:26
So maybe this comes, so the safety guy comes along, safety guy here's the guy walking through one of his policing exercises.
30:33
See the guy has a look, walks up, it's right, I can't stop, put that tool down, let's have a look, look at the state of this, I can't believe, you are in my training course, you should know better than this, that's not acceptable, I'm gonna write you up.
30:48
Safety guy's really upset and frustrated, he's going around and all doing this stuff, are new guys confused and upset and he's frustrated because he knows it's not right.
30:58
So maybe because he's new, they give him the benefit of the doubt and say, right, okay, what I'll do, come back, we'll do another training session.
31:06
So then he's back in the training room.
31:08
This is a grinder, okay, boy, this is a grinder.
31:10
It has to have a go.
31:11
Okay, does he need training?
31:12
He doesn't need training, right?
31:15
It's not about training, it's something else.
31:17
It's about the culture in that team.
31:23
Now I'm missing somebody out here.
31:28
The supervisor, the boss of that team is really important.
31:32
Who do they listen to?
31:34
They listen to the boss.
31:36
So the safety guys, the safety people, they have, you know, influence and they have authority.
31:43
Sometimes they're quite senior authority.
31:46
But the boss, he has influence and authority, but he has power.
31:52
If the boss says, never mind that, go out there, get it done, that's what they're going to do.
31:59
He's set the standard on grinding for his team.
32:04
No matter what's going on in the rest of the business, that's where you're likely to have a problem with the grinder.
32:10
On the other hand, if the supervisor is aware of the hazards, looking after his people, kind of really engaged and committed to making sure things are as they should be.
32:21
If he saw the grinder, he would maybe use it as a coaching opportunity.
32:25
You guys, come here, look at this grinder. Now, what's not quite right here? Talk to me. He's coaching them.
32:32
What could happen? Oh, well, the disc could break. Oh yeah, and what?
32:37
Fly in your of flying effects and, well, it could kill you.
32:42
Right, what do we need to do?
32:43
We need to get rid of that guy, get a new grinder.
32:47
Right, I want that, I want that done.
32:51
If the attitude of the boss is key to the actual standard within each of those teams.
33:00
So how do you do that?
33:01
How do you influence him?
33:03
So obviously it goes up the line.
33:05
It's about his boss and it's about his boss.
33:07
If the supervisor wants to get a new grinder, but then his boss is like, we haven't got any budget for that, you can't do it.
33:13
You'll have to make do.
33:16
There's nothing you can do.
33:17
And so on, up the line.
33:19
This is a simple example, but you can see how that plays out across the operation.
33:24
So leadership behavior has a direct impact on frontline behavior.
33:29
It's frontline behavior where you get control of risks or accidents, compliance or noncompliance, acceptable, unacceptable behaviors.
33:38
You know, when there is an incident and there's an investigation, they generally start off talking to the people who were there, right?
33:46
But if they're doing it well, very quickly they'll start talking to the supervisor, then they'll talk to his boss and they'll go up the line.
33:53
And if it's serious enough, they could go all the way to the board of directors.
33:57
Why?
33:58
Because it's well known that the way that leaders show up, what they do, what they don't do, what they say, what they don't say, how they say it, who they talk to, who they don't talk to, has ripples across the organization.
34:12
It's creating the culture in all areas, including in safety.
34:18
If they're not, if they're tossing safety over to the safety folks and not really, they're saying, oh, safety is important, but they're not really having those conversations, then you're gonna have a safety culture issue.
34:32
So this is a simple model, actually.
34:33
It's nice to keep these things simple.
34:35
behaviour is thought plus action.
34:42
Systems and procedures and legislation kind of focuses more on you should do this, you shouldn't do that, focus on the action.
34:49
Really the value in this is focusing on the thought. We can only change how people act if we get them to think differently.
35:00
We can only get them to think differently if their leaders think differently.
35:06
You have to change, so we need to change the behaviours of people on the front line.
35:12
In order to do that we need to change the behaviours of their bosses, change their, create different cultures in the teams, purposefully using that leadership influence.
35:24
Having the right intent is crucial but it's not sufficient.
35:28
Leaders need to be skilled in being able to identify hazard, to be able to have the conversations in the right way, in the right place to the right people.
35:36
If they show up talking about be safe and there's unchanged cylinders behind them, they've actually, by their presence, condoned the unchanged cylinders as being okay.
35:45
So they need to have the conversation about the cylinders.
35:48
Otherwise it's just safety BS, you know?
35:53
And we don't got time to get too much into that, but I wanted to take that into the power of leadership alignment.
35:59
So how do you create alignment on what that should look like for people?
36:07
Okay, so you've got A to B, so let's say that A is a less safe operation, organisation.
36:19
B is a much more safe organisation.
36:23
To start this process of aligning leaders, they need to know what does it look like out there? What's the reality on the ground?
36:37
Sometimes they're quite removed from it.
36:38
They're hearing it second or third hand or only when there's an incident. They need to kind of get out there.
36:43
They need to know what's it look like on the ground and where do they want to take it to. So let's just talk through that process a little bit.
36:57
This is an example on the left. A is not so safe. B is safe. So I'm just going to talk to these.
37:05
Take a few moments just to kind of think about these. They're quite a useful list.
37:09
So, in A, maybe you've got risk assessments not being done well, but you actually want them to be excellent.
37:17
In A, people are taking shortcuts, they're jumping up on top of equipment, they're running up poles and doing all sorts of things because it's only going to take a minute to do it quickly, but in B, you don't get that, you know?
37:30
In A, new workers come in and they're not particularly well inducted, they're not being well controlled, they're And B, you've got really good control of new workers.
37:42
They're on it.
37:44
You can compare and see some of these you may recognise.
37:47
Poor planning on the job.
37:49
Job's not getting planned out properly.
37:51
And B, things are planned.
37:55
Plan A and plan B.
37:56
Make sure things go properly.
37:59
And A, people aren't really looking out for hazards.
38:03
And B, well they are.
38:05
they kind of got a habit of scanning for hazards, having conversations about those hazards and making sure that the controls are in place to reduce the risk. In A, permit to work, a pencil whipping it.
38:20
There you go, you know, line of people, permit issuer, what you're doing, oh, hot work, yeah, there's a form there, off you go, next.
38:27
In B, permits to works are a thought process that's been documented and followed through.
38:36
In A, we need to lift this piece of equipment, get a crane in, shift it over here, lift it into the building.
38:42
High risk activity, not planned, not executed well.
38:48
Things happen.
38:50
B, very disciplined.
38:53
They think about it very carefully, plan it out, get everybody involved.
38:59
In A, people are not looking out for each other.
39:01
You know, someone's working close to the edge. Nobody says anything.
39:05
I've got some photos of this in the moment I'll share with you quickly And B buddies they know they watch out for each other They have supervisors, they don't really know what's going on they're a bit like clueless You don't see that in B.
39:22
They know exactly who's going on They'll know if somebody's been up all night watching the football, European football, and they're like in Asia That's not the guy to put on the high-risk task today because he's probably going to be tired. Supervisors know their people. In A, safety equipment, bypassing it.
39:41
Oh, you've got a metal stamp or something. Just put some tape over this one. Bypass it.
39:46
You won't see that in B. In A, equipment shouldn't be a grinder, shouldn't be there.
39:53
In B, you won't that. It's budgeted for, made sure it happens.
39:58
In A, people standing under live loads are in the line of fire. In B, things are barricaded off properly, they're warned, supervised.
40:10
A is less safe and B is much more safe.
40:15
In A, you're probably going to be having a lot of and Liam misses. B, people might very rarely getting hurt.
40:25
In A, they're hiding, pointing fingers, running away. B, they're sharing the incidents, they're talking to each other.
40:37
So we want to be able to move from A to B.
40:40
Let's have a, I'm going to just ping up some photos of sort of the things you see, this is a soybean manufacturing facility in China.
40:49
About three or four years ago, I was there taking these photographs.
40:53
People welding without having any protection for their eyes and people around them, for example.
40:58
This was a pi PPE area, with like, should be long sleeves, hard hats, safety boots, people just wandering in and out, lax.
41:09
This is almost like booby traps, where you've got the you know cables strung across stairwells and coming down it had neck heights for you to walk into. How does that come about?
41:22
This was tank skirts, confined spaces, clearly people you know Janice is in there leaving his muck and bucket how does he get that out he has to go into the confined space.
41:33
Equipment not fit for use, four cliffs falling apart, not well- Different areas, people working at high, not being tied off.
41:48
You get the idea.
41:50
Cylinders not being chained up properly.
41:52
If one of those falls, goes off like a rocket.
41:55
Could weigh, you know, some of those could be weighing, you know, 100 kg, 200 kg cylinders.
42:03
Supervisor encouraging his colleague to roll the cylinders across the yard.
42:08
It's kind of the way that they do it.
42:09
We always do it like this.
42:10
There's never been a problem, no safety caps.
42:15
Getting people working up at high on top of equipment, live equipment underneath, people standing around watching, nobody saying anything.
42:24
So you can move from A to B, you need to start addressing what's going on.
42:28
A lot of this is behavioural, it's the way that things are done here, the way that things are allowed to be done here.
42:36
So let's get back into how do you pull this into leaders' actions?
42:41
So, leaders' actions are like vectors, the trap function.
42:48
I'm sorry, it looks like I've got some background noise.
42:51
It just kind of comes and goes a little bit, bear with me.
42:56
Leaders' actions are like vectors, they have magnitude and direction, but they're represented by an arrow.
43:04
This often kind of lands quite well with people, particularly, you know, engineering type folks.
43:09
So, the more senior the leader, the more magnitude they have, right?
43:15
So, you get that direction aligned, you can make progress.
43:20
So, if you have, if they're not aligned, if you've got one leader saying, oh, no, you can't be building a platform, we haven't got time for that, you're going to have to use A-frame ladders, and somebody else is saying, that's not safe, we do need to be, you know, we need to be using, we need to put, we need a platform here.
43:35
They're all pointing in different directions, So you're not going to get any movement from A to B.
43:41
If you can get alignment, we can get those senior leaders aligned.
43:47
The other arrows will shift.
43:51
And as you get that shift, then you can start to get some real movement from A to B.
43:57
We call it a team, team as a force multiplier, really drive change through the organization.
44:05
So let's pause there and see what do you think in the question chat there?
44:17
What could your teams do to create that leadership alignment?
44:21
Let's give you a moment to kind of ping something in there. See what you come up with. Yeah, right. Okay, so getting out there more.
44:39
Being amongst it, following the correct procedures themselves.
44:47
Thanks, Jemma.
44:47
It's true.
44:49
Walk the talk.
44:50
If you're not doing it, they're not going to do it, right?
44:54
Yeah, be present on the shop floor.
44:56
Talk in front of the managers.
44:58
Being present on the shop floor is an interesting one, because if you're present on the shop floor, you've got to be aware of what the hazards are, right?
45:05
Otherwise, you're kind of condoning it.
45:07
If you're there, it's talking about safety.
45:08
but there's unsafe stuff going on around. It's a problem. Lead by example, absolutely.
45:15
Visible action. Yeah, investment is important.
45:19
If there's no money being allocated to be able to replace the grinder, it's like as small as you'll put up the platform, then it won't happen, right? Investment, good comms on what they're doing to improve. Yeah, brilliant.
45:35
Provide the right safety structures and teams.
45:40
Yeah, lead by example again, spend time with the team, bond with them, know them, know your people, absolutely.
45:46
Marcy, thank you, that's it.
45:49
Be approachable and open to conversations, yes.
45:51
And one of the words I would use is coaching, actually.
45:54
So you need to kind of create a situation where your leaders are showing up as coaches, where they're asking questions, ask, don't tell, you know?
46:03
And tell people, they'll do it, but they won't remember.
46:05
But if you ask them, work through it in that way, then they'll remember.
46:12
Yeah, it's sure effective training.
46:14
Training comes up a lot.
46:15
Death by PowerPoint in the safety space can be literal.
46:19
You know, if you're training a bunch of people on working at high or confined space entry and they're asleep, in the back of the room, then they can go out there and literally die.
46:30
So you gotta have, where was it?
46:34
Good training, right, the right training structure, right teams, the right approach.
46:39
Be approachable, open to conversation, absolutely.
46:42
Ensure effective training, refreshes, control of contractors.
46:45
Contractors comes up a lot.
46:47
Some of those photos, a couple of those were contractors.
46:52
Brilliant, okay.
46:53
Thank you, David.
46:56
Crip leaders for change.
46:58
Okay, so we're coming to the end now.
46:59
I want to leave a little bit of time at the end in case there were any questions.
47:02
We can kind of spend a little bit of time talking through those things.
47:04
And, of course, you can do a whole day on this particular topic, but just to kind of summarise, harness the power of leadership influence.
47:13
So quite often leaders, they know, you know, if you're a leader, you know you've got influence and you know you've got power, but you may not really kind of understand how you can harness that power to create the culture that you want.
47:31
What does that mean?
47:31
What does it look like for you?
47:32
And it might be different for everybody.
47:34
So there could be, there's a coaching opportunity around that, understanding how do you get things done in other parts of your, you know, of your working life?
47:44
Historically, how have you managed to get really good results?
47:47
To what degree are you using those techniques to actually address safety for people?
47:53
Or are you kind of just pushing it off somewhere else?
47:57
You know?
48:00
This was mentioned in the chat, transformational interactions, engagements with people.
48:08
Recognising and focusing on areas where there's the greatest need at the bottom of the curve. Find that.
48:13
Work on that.
48:17
Try not to create new bureaucracy and new procedures, but breathe life into what's already there through the behavioural side of things.
48:26
Get people connecting with in a different way. Okay. All right. That'll do, I think, for today.
48:33
I'm going to put this one up again.
48:35
We are doing some other sessions around this, short ones, but in a similar sort of style, a few polls and whatever. Just going to get people thinking.
48:44
So I think we'll be sharing the link with you. You can sign up to one or two of them. They're all free.
48:48
Never mind, you know, you can share them in your organisation.
48:54
And then finally, there go. You can't come off mute, actually, apparently.
48:58
I don't think you can do that, but you can use the questions function. I can see it's looking quite busy there.
49:05
So, we've got, you know, five minutes or so. So, yeah, Luke, maybe we can do a Q &A. Yeah, of course.
49:12
Thanks very much, David, for that really interesting stuff.
49:15
And as David said at the start, we'll be recording, or we have been recording, and obviously then we're going to see you in the next couple of days, along with the Yeah, we've had a few questions that have come in already, please keep putting any in the questions box. The first one that came in a bit earlier on was, what's the best way to understand the current state of operation?
49:36
Yeah, okay, that's a good question.
49:39
Because you need to kind of reveal the reality and it's quite difficult people are cut off from the reality.
49:44
Sometimes you know depending on the organization and out there and much, but there are you know there are things you can do safety culture surveys.
49:51
are very popular.
49:52
You can dip into different parts of the business and analyse the results and figure out where are the weaknesses, at which level, which parts of the business.
50:03
Diagnostic assessments where you actually go into the operation, but you do it in a way where you can embed coaching into that.
50:11
You're doing it in a way where you have people from the operation bringing the reality of what's going on out there to their leaders in defined workshops a couple of times a day.
50:22
So it's not coming from some clever consultant, it might facilitate it, but something that you're doing within your own operation that you can do going forward, just to kind of connect with the reality now, what are people doing out there this morning, in this lunchtime, and then some root cause analysis around that.
50:40
So there are various ways of kind of lifting the veil as it were.
50:46
Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah, all good, all makes sense.
50:50
I think another question came in, which is off the back of the last one that you made in the presentation about coaching, which is how would you go about creating a coaching culture where people and workplace are coaching each other?
51:03
Yeah, then that's a case of, I mean, there's obviously there's a skill involved in that kind of conversation, which you can learn, you can have to have, there's lots of literature out there.
51:15
There's lots of resources available for, you know, how to do the tower of coaching is a good one.
51:19
It's like really short example, I can't remember, I think, I can't remember who that was by now, but the tower of coaching is a good resource.
51:26
But to get out there and to practice it, like in small groups, to actually go out with people into the field and practice having those conversations.
51:35
So it's training, but not it's real, because you're actually having those conversations, but using Socratic questioning techniques, and, and encouraging people to ask each other. Simple coaching techniques. So you're creating a conversation.
51:51
There's no blame involved in that. There's no judgment.
51:54
It's just like, you know, so why are you standing there? Come over here. Why are you standing? What's going on up there?
52:00
Oh yeah, they're doing some work up there. Right.
52:02
So if he dropped at that spanner from that scaffold and you're stood where you were standing, what could happen? Yeah, it could hit me on the head.
52:11
Okay, how could you protect your head? Yeah, okay, boss, I should have my hard hat on.
52:17
That's their focus and focus.
52:18
Yeah, where is it?
52:21
Oh, yeah, no, I'll go and get in, you know, so those kind of conversations, if you're doing it consistently, consistently, that's respectful, it's thoughtful, it's, you know, it's not condescending, but it just gets people thinking, you know, we're standing under the load, come over here, look at this situation, what are we looking at here?
52:39
So that's the sort of coaching environment you want you want to create? Definitely.
52:45
Yeah, I think so and we've had we've got one more which is coming so if anyone's got any others please do put them in the questions box before we wrap up.
52:55
Yeah the other question that's coming which is how would you create the habit of people actually starting to look after each other?
53:02
Yeah okay so habits is a yeah the habits is a difficult one anybody who's tried to break a habit, give up smoking or something, it's difficult to change habits. A lot of what we see on site is we've always done it like this.
53:19
We've always manhandled the load down into the dock. This is how we do it. Nothing's ever happened.
53:26
It's actually neurological.
53:28
One of the sessions that we're going to be doing is about the neurology of safety. The habits are going on in the limbic system.
53:34
When we're doing something repeatedly over and over, like driving, it gets encoded into the limbic system.
53:39
You're not even thinking about it anymore.
53:41
It's just the way you do it, which frees up your cerebral cortex to do more complicated thinking.
53:47
And it's difficult to shift that.
53:49
Once it's in the limbic system that we can, we lift it down into the dock like this, it's gonna take quite a few goes to be able to move that into a situation where you're using tag lines, for example.
54:01
So you have to be patient and keep having those conversations because it's gonna take them a while to kind of figure it out.
54:08
Yeah, so there's a lot of neurology around that.
54:10
It's, there's, you can dig into that quite a bit.
54:13
Okay, well, thank you very much.
54:15
I don't think we have any other questions in there, but as David mentioned as well, we put the links to the upcoming sessions in the chat and we'll be sending it out again in the follow-up email along with David's email and copy of the slides.
54:28
Yeah, well, thanks very much, David.
54:30
Very useful stuff.
54:31
that was a big fan of the polls as well.
54:33
I think it's good to keep it interactive and engaging.
54:35
It was great to get so many good responses as well.
54:37
So thank you to everyone who took part in the polls.
54:40
But yeah, unless you have any final remarks, David.
54:44
No, I just want to thank everybody for being here today.
54:46
Do have a look at the series that we're setting up.
54:48
I'll do it somewhere a bit quieter.
54:54
My apologies for the background noise.
54:57
I'm in the office today.
54:58
but yeah, I hope that was interesting and useful and yeah, join us for more.
55:04
It'd be great to have you. Well thanks very much. Thanks Luke.
55:08
No worries, well I hope you'll have a great rest of the week and that we see you at another webinar again soon. See you later everyone.
55:14
Thanks, bye for now.
